is a trance dance ritual involving riders on flat bamboo horses. The performances are accompanied by scaled-down versions of Javanese gamelan ensembles and with a much freer form. Today the classical gamelan instruments at *jathilan* performances — the large bronze *gong*, the smaller hanging gongs called *kempul*, the horizontal gongs called *kethuk kempyang* or *kenong* and the vertical hand-drum known as *kendhang* — are invariably combined with a Western drum set and a keyboard, and the popular tunes of the *dangdut* genre to heighten the entertainment value of the events. Like the gamelan performances we have experienced at the palace of the Sultan of Yogyakarta, the gamelan performance at *jathilan* dance events is also always amplified through massive loudspeaker systems and played at very high volume. However, in contrast to the refined gamelan performances in the Javanese courts which are seen as symbols of political power, the dynamic and chaotic practices of *jathilan* trance dances in the villages are often seen as forms of resistance to a political and aesthetic hegemony of the Indonesian elite. Gamelan, in short, is contested and the object of experimentation at multiple levels. Indeed, for many experimental musicians in Indonesia gamelan is at its very aesthetic core all about experimentation. The Yogyakarta-based Sandikala Ensemble belongs to those who say so. For them, the current experiments with gamelan in Indonesian experimental music is about recovering and developing this aesthetic core as a form of experimental music. Sandikala Ensemble was formed in 2020 by the composer Dionysius \[Dion\] Arya Nataraja. It comprises the following members: Yustiawan \[Yusti\] Paradigma Umar, Roni Driyastoto, Suseno Setyo Wibowo, Mustika Garis Sejati, Muhammad Khoirur Roziqin, Dwi Ariyanto, Muhammad Eko Sudarmanto (crew), and Alva Christo Yoshe Wijaya (crew). During a visit to Yogyakarta in January 2023 we spoke to Sandikala members Yusti and Roni, along with gamelan teacher and improvisation musician Setya Rahdiyatmi Kurnia Jatilinuar. A few days before the interview we had heard the three musicians perform at various improvisational concert constellations at two ongoing festivals: *Jogja Noise Bombing Festival* and *Kombo. Festival of Free Improvised Music*. At these concerts, Yusti and Roni — who play *gendér* (metallophone) and *rebab* (string instrument), two classical gamelan instruments — improvised with a variety of musicians and artists playing electric guitar, synthesizer, electronics and DIY devices, drum and cello. In one performance even a *dalang* (puppeteer) participated. Setya had been performing as vocalist at one of the Kombo concerts. Sandikala also performed from scores made by Dion, where improvisation also played a role. “Dion is a great fan of Dewa Alit” Yusti told us. Inspired by Dewa Alit, who builds new gamelan instruments that expands the classic tuning of gamelan of either 5 and 7 to 11 tones, Dion has developed gamelan instruments for Sandikala Ensemble to a microtonal tuning system of no less than 36 tones. We sat down with Setya, Yusti and Roni and asked them: “what is the relation between gamelan and experimental music in Ind